EP 011 | Turn Strangers Into Clients: The Power of Genuine Engagement

In today’s digital age, building strong relationships with your target audience is more important than ever. But how do you do that when you’re just starting out, or you don’t have a large following?


In this episode of the Invisible to Invincible Podcast, host Kendra Losee sits down with Deb Coman, a content strategist and writer who helps business owners overcome overwhelm and invisibility. Deb shares her valuable insights on the importance of connection and engagement for building a successful brand. She discusses the power of social media to nurture relationships with your target audience and offers practical tips for creating compelling content that resonates with your listeners.

Key Takeaways:

  • The importance of connection and engagement for business success: People are more likely to do business with you if they know, like, and trust you.
  • How to use social media to nurture relationships with your target audience: Use social media to connect with your audience personally, share valuable content, and engage in conversations.
  • The power of personal storytelling in building trust: Share stories about your experiences, successes, and failures to build trust with your audience.
  • Tips for creating compelling content that resonates with your listeners: Know your audience, write in a clear and concise style, use strong visuals, tell stories, and be authentic.
  • How to overcome the challenges of engaging with your audience: Be consistent with your posting, ask questions, run contests and giveaways, host webinars and live events, respond to comments and messages, and collaborate with other businesses.

Final Thoughts

Building a successful brand is all about connecting with your target audience on a personal level. By following Deb’s tips, you can build trust, increase visibility, and attract more clients for your business.

Be sure to tune into the Invisible to Invincible Podcast, where we champion high-achieving entrepreneurs, business owners, coaches, consultants and executives. We’re your guide to achieving work-life fulfillment, making your career work for you (not the other way around), and pursuing success in business and life on your own terms. It’s never too late to take control, become visible and invincible, and transform your professional path, no matter your age (especially after 40). 😉

Meet Deb Coman:

Deb Coman is a Content Conversion Strategist and founder of the Six Figure Content Lab. Deb guides impact-driven service providers and healers to create content that converts. By developing and deploying trust-building email and social media posts, service providers discover a faster way to attract and enroll their next 3 – 5 ideal clients each month.


Deb was featured in BuzzSumo’s “Top 100 Content Marketers to Follow Right Now” as well as NOW Marketing Group’s “Top 113 Digital Marketing Experts to Follow.” You can find her on your favorite social media platform and at DebComan.com.


🌟Connect with Deb:

Facebook profile – @DebRamskiComan

Facebook business page – @DebComanWriting

LinkedIn – @DebComan

Twitter – @DebComanWriting

Instagram – @DebComanWriting



This podcast is sponsored by KendraLosee.com. Some links are affiliate links, which means if you buy something, we may receive a small commission.



🌟Connect with Kendra

Instagram – @itskendralosee

Facebook – @itskendralosee

On LinkedIn – @kendralosee

On TikTok – @itskendralosee



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EP 011 - Transcript

Turn Strangers Into Clients: The Power of Genuine Engagement with Deb Coman

[00:00:00] ​Do you ever struggle to start conversations that feel natural online or perhaps the idea of posting on social media and having to talk to people and engage with people feels overwhelming? If so, then you are in luck because today’s guest is one of the best people I know when it comes to having authentic and purposeful conversations with strangers on the internet.


[00:00:25] She is an expert at turning those strangers into friends and clients. So today’s guest, please join me in welcoming my friend, Deb Coleman.


[00:00:35] Hello friend, I’m Kendra and you’ve tuned into the Invisible to Invincible podcast, where passionately driven business owners share their journeys from hidden gems to industry leaders. Together, we’ll uncover the secrets, mental shifts, and visibility and marketing strategies that turn these hidden gems into undeniable forces.


[00:01:00] So hit that subscribe button and let’s dive in.


[00:01:03] ​Introduction


[00:01:08] Welcome, Deb. Thanks for being here today. Thanks for having me, Kendra. I can’t wait to get talking with you. Absolutely. Okay. For those of you who are tuning in, I have known Deb for several years, we’re friends. So that’s a little behind the scenes of how it’s going to play out when you’re listening to us talk.


[00:01:26] I’m excited to share and introduce Deb with all of you because she is fantastic. So Deb, You are a content strategist and writer, content conversion strategist and writer. Let me make sure I get all the right words in there. Can you talk a little bit about how you got there and how you became Deb Comen, content strategist and writer and top 100 content marketers to follow right now and NOW Marketing Groups lists and making all these amazing lists of things that you’re doing with your content.


[00:02:00] Thank you so much. Tell us everything. I will, I’ll try. as with most of us, it’s never really a straight line. So my early days of working were in the field of mental health and, you know, like many of us, those things that we did before usually find a way to be of value in our current version of how we’re showing up in the world.


[00:02:21] After that, I was home with my kids and started editing and Doing some grants writing because I had done that in my previous life, too. And what, the pivot point for me was when I was working for a freelancer who decided to go back to corporate. I said, wait a minute, like I was really enjoying this kind of part time work.


[00:02:43] So I made a decision, like I have to figure out how to do this for myself. That’s like exactly what I did. I started. you know, what we now talk about is like cold outreach and just finding people who said, yeah, this would be great. I need some help with my content. Back then it would be website copy or that sort of thing.


[00:03:03] It just evolved to where I always knew from the beginning, I was interested in why are you. Why is this your message? What are you trying to accomplish with it? Which as we all know now is the strategy behind it. And that’s what really was my love and what led me to become more of a content conversion strategist who also did the copywriting, but really wanted to help people get in touch with that.


[00:03:29] Why and be sure that that’s threaded through all their content, which is what I do today. One of the things that I absolutely admire about. our friend Deb, is her ability to connect. When I go on social media, Deb is there connecting with people, encouraging people, and really building that personal relationship that’s really important.


[00:03:59] What inspired you? Was that strategic? Is that just you? Tell me more. Yeah, I love this. And I think it is just me or I say just me, but, it’s really an important piece of why people choose to work with me. And if they want to learn how to do that too, and many of us do have it in us and use it, but aren’t always connecting it with, Oh, if I make this. action. It’s really helping people to get to know me and trust me and then make a decision about if they want to work with me, if it’s the timing is right and I solve their challenge. So like most of what I’ve done in my work, I’ve just kind of done it and then step back and said, wait, what is it that what am I actually doing?


[00:04:46] Like, what are, are there steps to this that, and there are, they just happen almost instantaneously. But when you break it down, then you’re able to teach it to someone else and. talk about a little more eloquently than, Oh, you just do it. Well, that’s not, you know what I mean? Like, what’s wrong with you? Just do it. Just, just engage or just, just show up. Like we hear this a lot, right? Show up as you. Okay. Well, what does that mean?


[00:05:13] The people who find that a challenge don’t even know what that means. They think they are, or they think that’s not the right fit for them. So I think it’s our job to to slow ourselves down and and when something’s working for us, break it down to where we can help other people to do the same if they align with that.


[00:05:36] I want to go back to a few things you just said, and one is I have talked to so many people when you talk about just show up as you like, you’re right. Who is me? I don’t feel comfortable. These are the things I’ve heard lately. I don’t feel comfortable. I don’t want people to know that much about me.


[00:05:55] I hate self promotion. And why is anyone going to care? Who am I? And I think that especially as we get older, It’s that inverse. relationship, right? Like, I now know that how much I don’t know, whereas when I was 27, I would have told you exactly how it was. This is how it should be, this is what it’s gonna be, and get out of my way, because I’m gonna make this happen.


[00:06:22] And now, That’s, it’s probably still there, let’s be clear,


[00:06:27] but it’s going to be filtered through a lot of things and now I know all of the stuff that I don’t know and I see that creating doubt and a lot of clients and a lot of people online. Yeah. I love this so much because especially what you just said there about what we don’t know, like this is one of those examples.


[00:06:49] People often feel like, well, I have to know all the answers. And I felt this too. If I’m going to support people with this, I need to know A to Z about this topic. And that’s not really true. And when we say things like, Oh, I don’t know. Or you know what? That part’s not really my expertise.


[00:07:11] We think that’s going to repel people from wanting to work with us, but they say, Oh, okay. And then they can, the thing we are really good at that we can help them with, they, they learn to trust us because we’re open and honest with that. So some of those things that I think, are real blocks for many of us, like saying, not being comfortable with, I don’t know, or I’m not sure, or I’m learning this myself, are really the things that.


[00:07:39] help people trust us for, because there are a lot of people out there doing the opposite, and like our younger selves. Oh, sure. Let me do that. And then we’re like, wow, am I going to pull this thing off? But, but truth is we always knew when we could help people that we would figure it out. So that was okay.


[00:07:57] But there are a lot of people out there not. showing up that way. Often the people who talk a lot about integrity and authenticity, maybe not always practicing it, that they’re saying it and, but this is where we get down to that piece of how do we support people to know to show up, to be who they are.


[00:08:22] Like you said, what does that mean? To me, it means what are our values? And I know you work with people on this, like you first have to identify what they are before you can start. Then integrating them into your messaging and how you do video and how you write your emails. You have to first know what they are.


[00:08:44] And then also what you said, Kendra, about the level of vulnerability when people say, well, I’m not doing that. I’m not telling my deepest, darkest secrets. That’s not what we’re being asked to do. Right. Right. I mean, it’s like, No, I


[00:09:02] don’t want them. I don’t want to see them myselves, but we get to decide where that line is. So I think that’s what you do with people. What I support people to do is what are you comfortable sharing? That’s non work that allows people to see your. values to experience your humor or your pastime activities.


[00:09:28] So it doesn’t have to be in, in infinite detail, but here’s how I spent my weekend or here’s a place I love to visit. Like these are all little connection pieces. Like we talked about connection that allow people to relate to us in a, in a bigger way. And often those are the very things that help them make their buying decisions.


[00:09:52] I absolutely agree. And we’ve talked about this before. There’s that level of each person has a level of comfort of how much they want to share. And a lot of us that came from corporate backgrounds were encouraged not to share any of that, right? It’s for the company, it’s for the brand. No one cares about you.


[00:10:11] They just want to know about this bigger thing. And over time we found that’s absolutely not true. We want, people want to know more, and so for me, it’s been a challenge to do people really care how much of this, and it’s something that I honestly, full transparency, I do struggle with that sometimes, because I don’t, I, there’s so many things that I just take for granted about my life that I don’t think anyone else is going to want to know.


[00:10:39] And it’s a way of learning and I think it’s something that we grew up with that, younger generations don’t, they want to share a lot of people, not everyone, I’m not trying to generalize, but are more comfortable sharing more because it’s always been an option. Yeah. Yeah. And that’s why I think it always goes back to supporting people with what their current comfort level is, what their goals are.


[00:11:08] I mean, if they want more clients and more sales and that’s not happening and they’re doing all the things, it may be that this piece is missing the piece about their values, the piece about their uniqueness. And I think it’s about supporting people to first do a little of that exploration and then make decisions about what, like you’re saying, how far do they want to go?


[00:11:36] It doesn’t take much to tell people what book you’re reading so they get a sense of, oh, oh, that’s interesting. Now, they’re not going to say I’m going to hire her because we’re reading the same book. But as when they’re looking at so many marketers who do similar work, these are the things that help you stand out, be remembered.


[00:11:59] And a lot of it is not just the values and that those things, the books we’re reading or what we do in our spare time, but how we communicate. When we’re showing up online, engaging, like, gee, I’m really sorry that’s happening for you right now. I, I can relate because this is what happened to me.


[00:12:21] People remember that. They’re watching and they’re not saying, Oh, look, there’s Deb, the marketer. They’re like, Oh, that’s kind of nice. to show up that way for people. And if that’s part of how you work and you’re in the mindset arena, they want to know, how do you engage? How might you support them one on one?


[00:12:43] And we can demonstrate some of that in how we show up on social media and online. It’s so true because there’s There’s something that I’ve been like reading more about and studying because that’s such an interesting mindset shift when you look from self promotion versus personal branding and I think that there’s so many examples out there that we assume we need to show up that way we assume that this is what like it’s just so pervasive that we assume that that’s what we’re supposed to be doing.


[00:13:20] Yeah, I, one of the things that we were talking about before is that I tend to tell people that you’re where you are, you’re perfectly perfect, right where you are, as you are. However, if you want to move forward and reach these goals that you haven’t been able to reach, something does need to change.


[00:13:41] And that might mean stepping out of a comfort level and it doesn’t mean taking a giant leap and being like, here’s my house. Here’s where I live. This is my kids. This is everything. Here’s my deepest, darkest secret. No, it’s what are the things that you’re open to share? What are the stories big or small that you might be open to sharing?


[00:14:03] Yeah, exactly. And, and for me, one of the shifts, if you will, was that I did a lot of the personal here’s what I’m doing, here’s a story about this in my home or whatever. And, Here’s how I support people. Here are some steps you can take the shift for me was working to combine those two things because I was often heavy on the let’s just have fun on social media.


[00:14:33] I’m your friend and not. Oh, and then, okay, here’s a post about how to write a better email and when we can tell the stories like you help people really identify and get comfortable with of weaving those things together, and we do it in our own heads, but we don’t always think to put that in our. content.


[00:14:54] Oh, I’m making this, recipe from my family. It’s kind of like how I work with clients and what we do, find those threads and then post some of that on social media that brings the two together. So for me, when I did more of that it just started making a difference in my work. So speaking of bringing more of you together, when you started your business, What made you decide to start with your name and personal branding for your name specifically?


[00:15:33] Because you can reach Deb at debcomen.Com. It took me six years to get to that point and understand that’s what I wanted to do. So I’m curious. What made you start there? Yeah. So it simply, I mean, I love to come up with names and naming things. And I also felt like people are hiring me, the person to support them.


[00:15:58] Like we’re talking about with my unique background and way of working with people. And once we add a name, and I know for some there’s a reason to do that, a brand other than our name, there’s a tiny, now there’s a step. Oh, I see the brand name. Wait, who is that? And it really struck me, Kendra, early on when I would get emails from someone and In the email, it was only the brand.


[00:16:26] It was signed the brand and I didn’t know who it was until I did a little research and said, Oh, it’s her. I really like her. But to be honest, when I read those emails without knowing it was her. I didn’t feel that connection to that. So for me, it was kind of, just seemed like the obvious thing that I want people to remember me and know me and that they’re getting me, not someone on my team when they hire me.


[00:16:54] And there’s nothing wrong with people who work that way, but the way my business is structured, you’re hiring me to write those emails for you and to teach you the strategy. So why not keep it simple? I think that’s really important and I think it I mean it obviously depends on the business, it depends on the structure, it depends on what you’re doing but for a service based business as someone who had two brands and two sides in my business and was trying to navigate them and coming from corporate I very much had a very large step in between me because this is how Kendra Would the person would respond to something.


[00:17:30] This is how kind of the marketer would respond to something or the marketing strategist would respond to something. This is how field marketing or motor marketing or the brand would respond to something. So all of a sudden I have like 40 filters in front of me, not even including like the number of things I was trying to manage.


[00:17:47] But I found that with those filters in front of me creating copy and writing was so hard and it’s always been something that came very naturally to me, but I felt like I was like, okay, let me put on my brand hat and now I’ve got to write like with the brand hat on and it was such a difference and it was so freeing once I decided to let all of that go.


[00:18:11] Yeah, I mean completely. And I think when you, when people choose a brand name other than their name, that’s fine. They just really need to work to get their name and their face out there if they want that connection. Like you said, if it fits with their business structure. Things like, we’ve seen before is your profile on social media, your logo.


[00:18:38] image, or is it your face? These are the things that allow us to kind of still make the connection without just being behind the brand. And again, it might work for some people, but if we’re service based, if we work one on one or small groups where we want people to know us, then we have to get ourselves.


[00:18:59] More than just the brand name. So, and I want to say something very specifically because Deb said that she would actually research emails to figure out who they were coming from, because she’s a nice person. I, if I don’t know who’s emailing me or why they’re emailing me, I’m going to delete that. I think 90 percent of people would also delete that because I’m not saying yeah, but I live too short if you are going to keep a secret from me and not tell me who you are and why you’re emailing me and I don’t know you one.


[00:19:31] Read the digital etiquette for dummies book because it’s in there. I wrote the email sections, but two, why are you cluttering my inbox without letting me know even who you are? Yeah, you may as well just text me as a person whose name and contact information isn’t in my phone. Like I’m going to respond the same way.


[00:19:49] I’m not going to be the kindhearted person who’s going to do the research to find out why you’re emailing and who you’re, I love that. I can’t say I always do that, but in that case I was like, wait a minute again, like asking why am I on this list? And was I, did I sign up for this? No. So I unsubscribe a little but yeah, most people will just let it go.


[00:20:10] life’s too short. Unsubscribe. Yeah, it’s true. And the same with. People not using their name anywhere. It’s hard to make connection. What if you want to send them a note? Are you saying, dear, you know, brand name? Or do you want to say, hey, Kendra, I love what you just sent out today. The other thing related to that is people speaking in the third person in all their content.


[00:20:34] I mean, that’s a biggie. And I’m sure it goes back to proper English or what you learned at school. But if you were writing dead. is doing this week and I’m the brand, I’m the person, why would I not say I? And again, not faulting people, but I think we don’t always stop and think about how is our message being received?


[00:20:57] How are, how does it, how is it for that person on the other end? Not the way we think we’re supposed to show up, like you were saying earlier, but how do, how will they best receive us and our message? That’s so funny. I don’t actually, I have to go back through and change my stuff because I tend to say we, and I’ve done this my entire life, both personally and professionally.


[00:21:21] Like we’re doing this, we’re doing that. I don’t know how many of me, sometimes it’s me and my dog, sometimes it’s me and friends, sometimes it’s me and the former team I had when they were my team, like we, and it is very much like. No, it’s me. I’m doing it. Stop giving someone else this imaginary royal we credit, right?


[00:21:41] Like it is just me. Right. And it probably goes back to mindset. I’m sure as you see with your clients, and I know I’ve experienced, like, how confident are we saying I? Yeah. You know, I, this is the way to be. This is what I. I think you should do, the more comfortable we get with that, the more we’re able to just go out there with the I instead of the brand name or, my other, like, here’s my pet peeve.


[00:22:11] We’re going to, it’s along the lines, here’s my pet peeve. And I, when I ran a department and an agency, my last job, I would go in client meetings and it was always the women that did this, but they would say, well, You know, we’d be talking to a client and they’d say, Well, I kind of did this research.


[00:22:30] Okay, you know what? You didn’t kind of do research. I saw you spend like 10 hours doing research. And when you start to get those hedging words in there, so it’s kind of, it’s kind of the same, right? It’s very similar to the we. Or not taking credit. It’s you either did it or you didn’t. If you, and it’s creating those hedging words that also hold you back because then you’re not committing to something that you already did.


[00:22:56] You spent days doing this research. Own it. You spent a lot of time learning these things so that you can present it and talk about it. It doesn’t matter. I mean, okay, I’m a former professor, so it doesn’t matter if you took classes as long as you found the way to learn. Yeah. And you’re so right in that.


[00:23:17] And even as I was sharing that story, I’m saying, well, I think I don’t even want to use that example because often we say, I think this is the way to go. And you’re so right. this is what I’m recommending. Yeah. It’s very different than this is what I think you may want to do if you agree. And I’m a big offender.


[00:23:37] And in that way of showing up, we’re eroding our own confidence and confidence in us, our own trust, because people are You know, they seem like small little tweaks, but they make a huge difference for our own ability to step into, our own conviction about what it is we’re saying. And also, people make their buying decisions based on trust.


[00:24:02] We need to trust it, and we need to Let them see that in action so that they’re like, we want, do we want them to say, maybe I’ll spend my money with you. Maybe I won’t, I’m not really sure. No, we want, like, we want to help people make a decision. Yes or no. No’s are fine, but let’s make a decision.


[00:24:22] Let’s be who we are. Let’s speak and stand in our convictions. And then, if we’re the right person and it’s the right time, they’ll say yes. It’s so funny you were saying that I absolutely was just thinking of a story, like an example I heard, right? Like we’re marketers, business owners.


[00:24:43] We have our place. We know what we’re doing. We know we’re good at it, but we have trouble. It’s that self promotion, right? Like it feels gross or somebody the other day I said to quote a friend of mine, she said, it feels like garbage to self promote, but here’s the deal. I don’t want to go to a surgeon. I don’t want to get on a flight and have the pilot say, well, I, I think we’re going to do pretty well today.


[00:25:10] I was looking at the weather chart and the navigation and I think pretty sure we’ll be okay. Here’s hoping the surgeon that walks in like, I kind of think that it’s, you know, your gallbladder. Oh, maybe I’ll find out something different. Maybe it’ll be your appendix. I don’t know. We’ll find out.


[00:25:32] We’ll just do it. We’ll see. Yeah. Like, yeah, we’re not doing surgery and we’re not flying people, but at the same time for your business, I’m going to take it as seriously. Because it is so much to my clients and it is so much my business means a lot to me. Yeah. That while I’m not curing cancer, it is still important.


[00:25:56] Yeah. And so for all of us to show up from so many of us to show up like, Oh, kind of, I kind of did that.


[00:26:05] Great. We can’t be wishy washy. I mean, and like to what you said earlier, like, and is there a way, like there is room for nice in business, unless nice is undermining how we show up confidently, which in my case, I have done that before.


[00:26:23] I want to be nice to the person. I don’t want to push them. I don’t want to. Well, no, that’s fine. You can still make invitations. You can still make offers. Like we talk about promotion. I really like to think about it as making offers with solutions for people who have, have a challenge. If we’re not going to promote, we’re not going to make those offers to them.


[00:26:44] Are we going to just let them sit there and figure it out on their own? And the same to how, Often or frequently we might do it, or how many emails are you going to send when you’re promoting something? You might feel like you’re bombarding or bothering, but people need ample opportunity. and sufficient information, which is why when we’re doing an email campaign, we’re going to touch on different things because different things are going to matter to people. Not everyone is going to use the same criteria to make their decision. So when people say I sent two emails, three emails, no one bought the thing, it must be terrible. I’m terrible. I know they didn’t see it or you didn’t give them enough information or you didn’t give them enough time or reminders. I think that we have a lot of, things to examine when it comes to why people feel uncomfortable about promoting. Certainly there’s a lot of stuff out there that is garbage and gross and feels like we don’t want any part of that, but that doesn’t mean that’s the only way to get our work out there and to get hired and to get new clients.


[00:27:57] A hundred percent. Those of you listening can clearly see why she’s so good at what she does. You can hear your desire to help people and that empathy that you have come through. That’s why you created your trust framework to help people get past that too, right?


[00:28:14] Exactly. And it’s really why I created a lot of the things I’ve created are things that I just did. And then like we talked about slow myself down to say what is my process so that one I could just take a look at that and be able to make it into a framework like you’ve done with yours to be able to teach it to someone else.


[00:28:33] I have a framework around what to do when you. want to engage more on social media or people don’t usually approach it that way. They want social media to work for them. How does it work where it gets us business or gets us visibility? And the trust framework is just to slow people down before they just hop on there and post their next thing.


[00:28:54] There’s a process of engaging in a way that’s meaningful with other people. So that’s where I came from. I love it because otherwise you’re just spinning your wheels like you’re posting to post you’re not putting much thought into it and I’ve seen a lot there’s so many different philosophies when it comes to posting on social media writing emails promoting your brand promoting yourself and there’s so many different philosophies and approaches that really it makes the trust method the trust framework you’ve created stand out because none of them that I’ve seen Include the very important step of taking it in and reflecting.


[00:29:40] Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. And for me, one of the things that happened that made it so much more meaningful to me was when I slowed myself down, looked at the process and really made it a point of leading with that. I’ve always done the engagement, but I had run out of my own content and it’s like, Oh, All right, I’ll just engage.


[00:30:04] I’ll do and right after that was when BuzzSumo recognized me as a top 100 content marketer at the time. And what I loved about it is it wasn’t based on numbers, followers, any of that kind of stuff. It was based on data that had to do with engagement. How much are you engaging with other people’s content?


[00:30:27] Versus adding your links or posting and all the things I was doing and because that’s what really, you know, not just about being recognized, but that’s what also allows you to open social media again after doing the trust steps and you have a whole bunch of notifications of. conversations happening because of that.


[00:30:50] So now you’re not just posting the next thing. You’re actually having meaningful conversation with different people and it’s way easier later to create content from that. You know, what are the, what, what’s inspiring me to now share more about my process. But, um, so it really works. And I think many, People do it naturally.


[00:31:14] Some don’t even, doesn’t even cross their mind to do this. They just think social media doesn’t work for them. And, um, it’s much to what you do with people about moving from invisible to invincible is like, get in there and have conversations, not just about what you want to be talking about, but what do the people you want to be connected with.


[00:31:40] Are already talking about how can you show up there I want to point out that you can see that you can hear tabs passion for this and when you look at the conversations that are happening and creating that engagement when it’s really just like a natural curiosity. And empathy towards making those connections and a focus there when you start to shift that I need to be selling a hundred percent of the time and start to create a balance between the two, you, it is going to work and those types of actions, those little actions that Deb’s recommending and those tips she’s giving us right now is really the difference that makes the difference when you start connecting with people.


[00:32:27] Yeah, it is so easy and there’s so many companies out there who just push information and still use social media and who still use the internet as a way to just amass advertisement and when companies start showing their employees and when companies start posting as them as the people, not the brand.


[00:32:50] You know, Wendy’s, those things aside, National Park Service, hilarious, by the way, aside, but for the smaller business owners, and I’ve seen it and I’ve worked across all these different industries, right? I had two sides of an agency working cannabis and CBD and higher ed, fintech, and every single time when we focused on people and not the product and not the service and not the thing you were selling 100 percent of the time and you gave people that chance to see the people behind it, that’s where the difference came in and that is Deb’s talking about you’re just talking about making that one step, taking that one step further and actually connecting with people and engaging with them at that point.


[00:33:32] Yeah. I mean, it does. It works. And, and you build trust. And I know you’ve experienced this too, that when we build those relationships and it’s not just the one conversation like, Oh, I’ll hop in here. Cause it’s on my topic, but when we make it a point to seek those out, then moving forward, where are those people?


[00:33:52] Where’s the conversation going next time? Then we, Find or I have found, I know you have too, people will refer work to us and they’ve never seen our product or deliverable. They’ve never seen an email I’ve written, but they’ll say, Oh, you need help with email. You should, talk to Deb, get to know her.


[00:34:14] Why is that? Well, it’s because they trust us and they are seeing us communicate and engage that they can then make the trust inference that, Oh, she probably does a really good job with that too. So, so, but it’s a much more natural way. Then here’s my latest, greatest thing you can buy, and it’s fine.


[00:34:36] We do do that some of the time, but that can’t be the bulk of it. That is why email’s not working, or that is why social media is not working because you’re using it as a one way broadcasting tool. As a rule of thumb, when I’ve taught social media in the past, I always recommended it was like no more than 20 percent should be promotional and sales. Everything else should be adding value and educating and inspiring or whatever aligns with the brand and the type of content. Is that a rule of thumb that you still think is accurate or do you scale it up or down?


[00:35:10] What does that look like? It’s funny because I don’t usually use. I’ve heard that before and I, maybe that’s how my numbers would stack up. I honestly don’t know because I tend to ride the wave of what feels natural. I talk a lot with my clients, if you’re not making offers at least every quarter, then yeah, maybe that’s why your revenue isn’t where you want it to be or your client case loader, that sort of thing. So that’s one thing, but as far as going from post to post or platform to platform or emails, I do agree. It needs to be a smaller portion where we’re actually full on promoting and have some limiters on it. Like how many emails over how much time. Sort of thing. But otherwise, I think it’s just, feeling into, and this is what I do for my clients.


[00:36:03] Like it’s time, Hey, you haven’t made an offer on social media at all. So people might not even know you do that thing that you do. I use that as a guide and will help people delineate what is that frequency, if that’s the way they prefer. to work. But usually people are lopsided, Kendra.


[00:36:23] I mean, they’re usually either all promotion or zero promotion. And a lot of the, my helpers and healers and service providers are very little promotion because of all the icky stuff we talked about, but they need to be making opportunities available to people. , I usually go by that. And the other thing I will say about engaging in real conversation is when we build those relationships, the people who know us will say, Hey, Deb, you have an XYZ available, don’t you?


[00:36:56] Can you share that here? And I do that with people too. I know you have a podcast. Would you share your podcast with everybody? So we can trust that when we show up not looking for podcast listeners necessarily in other people’s conversations, but that when we’ve built relationships, we will get those invitations.


[00:37:20] That is much more natural way to do it than, Hey, and again, nothing wrong with, Oh, this was a subject on my podcast recently. That can be the most natural way to show up. But if it’s brand new people, brand new arena, most of us are going to wait an opportunity where we’re asked to put that in there.


[00:37:41] So it’s all the seeds, the seeds of building trust, the seeds of starting relationships with new people and nurturing the ones with the people we already know, , that ultimately help people make the decision like, Oh, I want to get to know her more. I’m going to hop on her email list, or I want to follow her on the other social media platforms where we both are, and that’s how we leave the breadcrumbs out there for the right people to connect with us more deeply, ultimately, maybe one on one


[00:38:12] Here’s the next question that I think people might be wondering is how much time do you recommend that people spend engaging or creating content because that could easily be a rabbit hole that takes forever or it could be, five minutes a day.


[00:38:29] Yeah. So I do teach people how to do it in under 30 minutes a day on social media, the engagement piece. You know, myself, I love social media. I’m sure I spend a lot more than 30 minutes a day as you probably do too. But it’s more on engagement than it is on content posting or content creation. So it doesn’t have to be the rabbit hole and it is more about consistency and the relationship and how often do you need to show up to keep that relationship going? What I love about the way I’ve done it for myself and taught my clients is it allows for us to be humans who take breaks, who stop posting for a while our work should not dry up because of that. If we’ve built real connections, it won’t, it can be unaffected. So consistency is important, but to me, it’s not so much every Tuesday at noon as being there and contributing value when you’re there. I think it doesn’t have to be a lot of time, but I also think it’s unrealistic to say, five minutes a day, and you’ll be golden, which everyone wants that, right?


[00:39:47] Tell me I can do this without working at all. Well, it takes a little bit because we need to care about who we’re talking with and be clear about how we want to show up. I love that. Thank you.


[00:40:00] Deb, as we’re wrapping up today, do you have any last advice or tips for someone who’s wondering hypothetically. She just said engaging with people is easy. I don’t think it’s easy. Do you have a tip that for someone that might be approaching it that way?


[00:40:18] Yeah. I don’t know who this person would be. I know.


[00:40:21] I’m sure there’s some out there are going to be like, no, this isn’t going to work for me. Are you the person who, who, doesn’t ever strike up a conversation with people. You might be like, you might be an introvert. You might be someone who doesn’t care to meet new people and all that. I would go back to, if you’re running a business and you’re not achieving whatever goals you have, whether it’s clients or revenue, something needs to be different. You may need some support. to engage in a way that’s more meaningful that works for you. so try it. Try some of the things we’ve talked about here today. Look for resources or people to help you exercise that a little bit more. And you may find that it doesn’t take much to do the things that we’re talking about here today, but the results are, can be phenomenal and they can save you so much more time than cranking out content and writing blogs every day. And again, nothing wrong with that, but there are easier, faster ways to make connections that help you achieve your business goals.


[00:41:37] Thank you. And on that note, where can people find you?


[00:41:41] Oh, they can find me at DebComen.Com and pretty much anywhere on social media as Deb Komen Writing or Deb Comen. And I’d love to connect with your audience and, let’s us get in there and practice some of what we’re talking about here today and have some conversations about what’s important to you.


[00:42:02] I love this. Thank you so much. To be clear, part of why I invited Deb here is because she’s so good at this. So where I have to work toward it full transparency, Deb just does all of this naturally. So thank you so much for joining us today, Deb.


[00:42:18] Thank you, Kendra, and you’re better than you think you are at all of this, and you’ve been doing it for a long time, , but I appreciate that, and. It’s been really fun talking about it with you today. Absolutely. Thank you. And thank you for listening and joining us today. And remember at KendraLosee.com, you can find business visibility, strategy and coaching and the invisible to invincible lab, so join the wait list and learn more about it for the next time because students are already showing up and learning a ton and Changing how they approach their marketing and how they approach how they show up for their business.


[00:42:57] Here we’re all about passionately driven entrepreneurs guiding you to success in both business and life because it’s never too late to make your business And career work for you and not the other way around. Until next time.